Thanks for responding to the post. I moved it to another spot on the site. Here are my thoughts on your comment:

In these political times, I can see why you would think that of the article. In fact, I was not advocating for one party or another. I do believe the gov’t should be more “compassionate” but I also think it works best at a more local level. My main point was to say that gov’t programs are not necessarily opposed to God’s will and that gov’t can be a way for us to organize our Christian charity into a more just society.

I think the passage you chose is a good one. One thing to note, however, is that prior to Israel’s clamoring for a king, God still had human representatives in the land who were meant to keep people faithful to God’s law and ensure justice. They were called judges. Samuel was one of them and the last faithful one. So, it’s not that God was opposed to humans representing him in an orgainized fashion, but God was opposed to a king. As you pointed out, God’s main opposition was that a king would not maintain justice as he would through the judges. See Deut 17:14ff.

So, someone might agree that God desires some organized institution to govern us today. That same person might suggest that the church is that institution. However, the church is never described with that function. If you compare Psalm 82 with Ephesians 3:10, it would seem that the church has a more prophetic role. That is, the church is here to speak truth to power as some say. With that in mind, I would then point you to Romans 13 where the gov’t is called “God’s servant.” Servant for what? Like the king in Psalm 72, the gov’t is meant to establish God’s justice.

From there we can debate what form that gov’t takes, but we can’t debate that God instituted gov’t to establish justice among the people. Some consider gov’t as coercive, but in a democratic state like ours we can choose our leaders. It seems to me that God would have us organize ourselve gov’t and all. It’s when we look to gov’t to save us that we’ve crossed the line. The difference bewteen the two is a fine line in itself.

I believe that too many in our country have tired of the responsibilities of freedom and are crying out for someone to step in to fight their battles. His position on right to life issues should be a dead giveaway that Barak Obama is not the man of God’s choosing to rule over us. Tuesday will tell the tale on how America will chose and God will say just like he did to Samuel, “listen to them and give them what they ask for”. I am just a housewife with no formal theological education, but this is how I hear God’s word calling out to me.
God bless us one and all. Julie Bukrey

Postings will be made concerning such destruction and perversion and also concerning The Creator’s promise that HE will “destroy those who destroy the earth(HIS Creation)!” (Rev11:18)

Yet Hope IS Alive!

However, there is no hope for that which is of the earth, earthly and fleshly, but there is Hope for that which is Spirit, Heavenly and Spiritual.

Hope is only alive for that which is Spirit, for mankind’s “imag”ination can pervert, yet not destroy, that which is Spirit! For that which is Spirit is Real, and that which is Real is Forever!

As stated, ”mankind’s “imag”ination can pervert, yet not destroy, that which is Spirit”, and so it is that this world, and it’s systems of “religion”, have their version of ”Light”, which can be turned on and off; their version of ”Truth”, which is of the “imag”ination; their version of ”Love”, which should be called lust; their version of ”Peace”, which needs be enforced; their version of ”Hope”, which is but a desire for temporal “things”; their version of ”Faith”, which is powerless; their version of “Grace”, which is the liberty to “do your own thing”; and sadly, their favorite color is gray ;-(

So come out of the shadows! And as is said by many, “Get Real”!

Yet, once again, “only that which is Spirit is Real, and only that which is Real is Forever”!

Hope is there would be those who “see” that The Life is in and of Spirit. Those who “see” will no longer have their portion with the multitudes who are destroying and perverting Creation(land, air, water, vegetation, creatures, Light, Truth, Love, Peace, Hope, Faith, Grace, etc.).

Simply, each breath(spirit) you take is a revelation of The Source of Life.

And “A Simple and Spiritual Life is the only Life that will survive!”

Forever…….

Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world and it’s systems of religion, for “The WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one” (1John5:19) indeed and Truth…….

Truth is never ending…….

Thanks for your comment and I appreciate your thoughts. I plan on adding more to the conversation so your comment is a little ahead of where I am. Nevertheless, it makes some good points and is wrestling with the age-old tension of “being in the world, but not of the world.” It’s important to remember that John uses the “world” in a couple of different ways. For example, he can write about the “world” as all things that oppose Jesus Christ, but he also writes about the “world” that God so loves and as the reason he sent his son.

So, it’s important to distinguish between the “very good” creation that God made and those aspects of creation that have fallen away from God’s service. This will be the topic of later posts. I hope you’ll return and continuing sharing your thoughts.

”For the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one”(I John 5:19)

Rather simple to “see” what the world is, for those with “eyes to see”? The Messiah declared the world to be wicked, and i believe it rather simple to “see” that the world is that ‘place’ where money is ‘god’, and ‘god’ is money. That ‘place’ where The Only True GOD’s Order, which is HIS Will, has been cast aside, replaced by the “imag”ined systems of mankind, and especially the religious systems which create but confusion, dis-order, and every evil work. Yet to those who are of this world, such a ‘place’ is a paradise. And what better represents such a ‘place’ than that which is called the u.s. of a.?

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world will pass away, and the lust thereof: but he that does the will of The Only True GOD will abide for ever.” (I John 2:15-17)

“If you were of the world, the world would love it’s own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said unto you, the servant is not greater than his Master. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept My saying, they will keep yours also.” (John 15:19-20)

“Where do wars and fighting among you come from? Do they not come of your lusts that war in your members? You lust, and have not: you kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: you fight and war yet you have not, because you ask not. You ask, and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may consume it upon your lusts. You adulterers and adulteresses, don’t you know that friendship with the world is to be at enmity with The Only True GOD? Therefore whoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of The Only True GOD.” (James 4:1-4)

“The world cannot hate you; but the world hates Me, because I testify that the works of this world are evil.” (John 7:7)” and “The Messiah gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of The Only True God, Our Father.”(Gal 1:4)

The Messiah testified: “If the world hates you know that it hated Me before it hated you.”(John 5:18) Truly, Truly, I say unto you, except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die it brings forth much fruit. He that loves his life in this world shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall have it unto life eternal.” (John 12:24-25)

John testified: “Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hates you.” (I John 3:13) “ James testified, “Whoever would be a friend of this world is the enemy of GOD”(James 4:4)

The “earth” is The Creation of The Only True GOD, Father of ALL! The “worldly” systems are the creation of, and under the dominion of “the god of this world”, he who is “the father of lies”, he who “has blinded the minds of those who believe not The Messiah”! All the nations of this world are under the dominion of, and serve, the evil one for he provides the fuel that feeds mankind’s “imag”ination, and mankind’s “imagination is destroying and perverting Creation(land, air, water, creatures, Truth, Love, Peace, Faith, Simplicity, .etc.) ;-(

And the “strongest thing” in the evil one’s worldly systems? “Woman”…… yet The Truth, that which is of The Only True GOD, is stronger even than woman. (read I Esdras 3&4 of the Apocrypha) And Truth, Love, Peace, Faith, Mercy, Hope,,,etc,,, all that is “good”, is of The Only True GOD and is of HIS Spirit, not of this world. Those born of The Spirit, those born of The Only True GOD, are the brethren of The Messiah, for they received “a love of The Truth that they might be saved”. Reborn!

And those who have received “a love of The Truth” have separated themselves from this world and those of this world, for they have taken heed unto The Call of The Only True GOD to “Come out of her MY people.” They are “in, but not of this wicked, evil world”, and The Only True GOD has received them, and is “A Father unto them, and they are HIS sons and daughters”. And they follow, and desire to be like their Master and Brother, The Messiah, He Who was “the firstborn of many brethren”. And as “The Messiah was a servant of The Only True GOD”, so also His Brethren are “servants of The Only True GOD.”

The called out ones are not “adulterers and adulteresses”, they are not “friends of this wicked, evil world”, they do not “fornicate with the god of this world” for they know that “to be a friend of this world is to be the enemy of The Only True GOD.” They are at war against the evil spirits that possess those who are of this world.

And they do not “allow that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach. For she teaches others to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. The Only True GOD gave her a chance to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.” (Rev 2:20-21)

“fornication” and “adultery..” in that which is recorded above signifies spiritual fornication with “the god of this world”, which is to love that which is of his world.

Once again, the “earth” is The Creation of The Only True GOD, Father of ALL! The “worldly” systems are the creation of, and under the dominion of “the god of this world”.

Those who “love this world” all serve “the god of this world”, and play their part in the processes that seek to destroy The Creation of The Only True GOD. “And The Only True GOD will destroy them who destroy the earth.” (Rev 11:18)

Global warming, polluted air, land and waters, toxic wastes, sexual perversion, evil inventions of destruction, greed, hate, carnal warfare, dis-ease ,,,etc,,, are all destructive processes that have their root in “the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life”.

And as stated, “woman is the strongest thing of this world”. Yet stronger than woman is The Truth, which is in those who have “received a love of The Truth”.

The Truth Is Alive in those who have been born of The Spirit for “they no longer love this wicked, evil world and it’s things, nor do they love their own lives in this world”.

They but seek and desire The Will of GOD, their Father and Creator, as they await their final transformation. “Corruptible to Incorruptible” ndeed and Truth!

Now “the ground was cursed for Adam’s sake” because he “hearkened unto the woman”.

Adam listened to a woman rather than obeying The Only True GOD. Yet because of Faithful Noah, The Only True GOD “no longer would curse the ground for man’s sake” because Noah obeyed The Only True GOD! (Genesis 8:21-22)

And the Faithful today are exhorted to “love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.” And Faithful women are exhorted to “be in silence.” “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. For I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” “For Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11,12,14)

A man and woman joined together in obedience and submission unto The Only True GOD are blessed indeed. All who are not obedient, all who will not submit themselves unto The Only True GOD will have to answer to HIM..period..

Be not of those who deny and defy “The One GOD, Father of All”. Be not of those who are destroying and perverting HIS Creation(land, air, water, creatures, Light, Truth, Love, Peace, Hope, Mercy, Thankfulness, .etc.)!

Paul testified, “The Only True GOD is The HEAD of The Messiah, The Messiah is The Head of the man, and the man is the head of the woman”. Multitudes pervert GOD’s Order because they have been seduced by ” the commandments and doctrines of men and devils”.

Multitudes are seduced by the religious systems that are in and of this evil world. Seduced because they love this evil world and their own life in it!

“Set your affections on things above”. Desire heavenly, eternal things. Quit serving ‘time’ in the prison that is this world and take heed unto The Call of “The Only True GOD” to ”Come Out of her, MY people!”

Once again, “Come out” of the worldly systems, which are the product of mankind’s “imag”ination, especially the religious systems. “Come out” from among those who are destroying and perverting Creation and be of those who follow The Messiah on “The Way to The Truth of The Life”.

Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world, for “the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one” indeed and Truth…….

Truth is never ending…….

That being said, I agree that the government has been given the charge to protect the good from the evil. But as God’s servants that charge should be tended to in the ways that God commands. As stated, God desires, not the death of the wicked, but that they should turn from their ways and repent. Taking that seriously would require major reform in a prison system (and a lot more prayer for those who reside there).

We can all forgive crimes against us (if we live). However, the government is obligated to govern and part of hat obligation is protection of its citizens and punishment of criminals.

The people on the two ferries wer acting as individuals and were not government, nor were they deciding sanction, but their own personal survival, at the cost of murdering dozens. Both groups of individuals faced a moral dilemma. Government had alread sanctioned the prisoners in the one ferry. Therefore, the other group didn’t not have the moral authority to blow them up in abid to save their own lives.

I will not give away the solution.

We also have to consider the circiumstance of that dilenmma. By then, the Joker had established himself as a compelete psycopath, unburdened by any conscience with regarding murdering many innocents.

My first thought in that scene was that the Joker rigged it so that whomever pushed the plunger, if anyone, that both ferries would explode or that the detonation would leave both ferries intact, and that the explosion would have, instead, been in a baby nursery or some such similar group of total innocents, thereby bringing overwhelming guilt and condemnation to the group who elected to push the plunger.

So was the character of the Joker, to paint us with his morality.

Good film.

I see a general materialism that seduces rich and poor alike (myself included). The poor are only striving after the things that other people have assuming that those will lead to happiness just as the rich get caught up in a cycle of endless consumption. I think “the rich” can be great witness to the richness of Christ by emptying themselves of and not striving after material possessions or items of status; doing less with more. It would be a witness not only to others with money, but also to those without that seeking after God’s kingdom is much more fulfilling than seeking after a summer home or pair of sneakers. So, I do think there is virtue in being poor if one is pursuing it in the name of Christ.

That being said, I do believe the rich have their own set of problems. I also believe they share many of the same problems of the poor psychologically, morally, relationally. But you can’t deny that they rich have the means to do something about it if they so choose. And, you can’t deny that the poor are often over looked or isolated in the name of service while the rich fence themselves off from the rest. It’s not just about being an oppressor, but walking by or stepping over that gets God upset (see Luke 16:19ff). That’s something that should give us all pause.

What we see in the OT is that God set up a system to make sure that poverty did not become a cycle and affect future generations. Clearly, the systems we have in place have not accomplished that. While I agree that it’s not entirely the systems fault, I think more could be done. While there is a lot of disagreement about whether the gov’t or market, tax or charity should do the job, the Bible does have something to say. Romans 13 is interesting here as it considers gov’t God’s servant. “For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants.” v. 6 Why is that Christians who take the Bible literally want to avoid taxes as much as possible?

Finally, I would say that the Bible does not distinguish between deserving and undeserving poor. While it says that sloth or laziness will lead to our demise, the Bible seems to say that that’s all of us at one time or another. Many of us have reserve funds that prevent us from falling too deep into the pit. There doesn’t seem to be a line that gets crossed at which point God no longer offers grace and mercy. Interestingly, however, the Bible does seem to make the Christian community a priority. Even the often quoted Matthew 25 passages refers to the least of these “who are members of my family.” So, we pass by the beggar or hand out aid, not based on whether or not he deserves it, but based on whether or not he is part of the Christian family.

In the end I will continue to say that we should remember the poor. One, because they need the wealth that we have. But also because they have a wealth that the rich could use. Granted this is not every poor person, but those poor who are “members of my family.” I certainly could have been more clear on that, but there are only so many minutes in an hour.